How did you go bankrupt?” one character asks another in Ernest Hemingway’s The Son Also Rises. “Two ways,” the other character responds. “Gradually and then suddenly.”

But as Mark Batterson points out in his new book, “That’s also how you get out of debt. That’s how you start a business, write a book, or run a marathon — and a thousand other things.”

“Regardless of craft or career, dreams don’t become reality overnight,” he writes. “Reverse engineer any success story, and I daresay it happened two ways — gradually then suddenly.”

In this episode of the Influence Podcast, I talk to Mark Batterson about how to succeed in ministry, based on insights from his new book. I’m George P. Wood, executive editor of Influence magazine and your host.

Mark Batterson is lead pastor at National Community Church in Washington, DC, and an ordained Assemblies of God minister. A New York Times-bestselling author, his newest book is Gradually Then Suddenly: How to Dream Bigger, Decide Better, and Leave a Lasting Legacy, published by Multnomah.

This episode of the Influence podcast is brought to you by My Healthy Church, distributors of 13: Leadership is More Than Luck.

As the thirteenth general superintendent of the Assemblies of God, Doug Clay reflects on the powerful legacy of twelve spiritual pioneers who came before him. Through personal stories, timeless principles, and the Spirit-led wisdom of these men, 13: Leadership is More Than Luck invites readers into a heritage of leadership that has shaped a Movement and impacted the world.